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	<title>Comments on: On Culture, CARIFESTA, and the Bahamian Economy, Part I</title>
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	<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/</link>
	<description>Nicolette Bethel&#039;s Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Ishmael</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83116</link>
		<dc:creator>Ishmael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 01:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83116</guid>
		<description>god my grammar has become atrocious :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>god my grammar has become atrocious <img src='http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ishmael</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83115</link>
		<dc:creator>Ishmael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 01:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83115</guid>
		<description>I am coming into this conversation on the corpse side of it, and my information is drawn on literature 3 years old, however, cruise ships are nothing but floating all inclusive&#039;s. Copious research is available that addresses the lack of money spend in communities and environments outside of the properties. Expended funds are usually backended with high levels of leakage.

With this said, attracting additional ships with larger capacity directly lines the cruiseline pockets along with the foreign ticket agent.

However, literature emerging from the Anthropology of Tourism continues to point towards the position that more money is realized from non-cruise, non-inclusive, mid to retired patrons. It also suggests that this clientele as at its disposal greater levels of disposable income, and appear to have been exposed to cultural models outside of their own and have cultivated an interest in the items that make of this area.

I find myself more convinced by this perception and thus a large %age of nicolette&#039;s position. What I am not yet convinced of though is that we possess the capacity to generate the kind of interest that influence persons on this disposition to visit. 

The very elements mentioned by nicolette that will draw the visitor to cuba appears to be lacking here at home. Pride appears to be replaced with arrogance and an position of entitlement. Unfortunately, to get to the artisan the visitor must negotiate this same wider public... unless the artisan&#039;s become digitalists....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am coming into this conversation on the corpse side of it, and my information is drawn on literature 3 years old, however, cruise ships are nothing but floating all inclusive&#8217;s. Copious research is available that addresses the lack of money spend in communities and environments outside of the properties. Expended funds are usually backended with high levels of leakage.</p>
<p>With this said, attracting additional ships with larger capacity directly lines the cruiseline pockets along with the foreign ticket agent.</p>
<p>However, literature emerging from the Anthropology of Tourism continues to point towards the position that more money is realized from non-cruise, non-inclusive, mid to retired patrons. It also suggests that this clientele as at its disposal greater levels of disposable income, and appear to have been exposed to cultural models outside of their own and have cultivated an interest in the items that make of this area.</p>
<p>I find myself more convinced by this perception and thus a large %age of nicolette&#8217;s position. What I am not yet convinced of though is that we possess the capacity to generate the kind of interest that influence persons on this disposition to visit. </p>
<p>The very elements mentioned by nicolette that will draw the visitor to cuba appears to be lacking here at home. Pride appears to be replaced with arrogance and an position of entitlement. Unfortunately, to get to the artisan the visitor must negotiate this same wider public&#8230; unless the artisan&#8217;s become digitalists&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolette Bethel</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83113</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolette Bethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83113</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know whether we need even the current number of cruise ships, frankly; I am convinced we don&#039;t need more. The only people who benefit from more cruise ship arrivals are the politicians who can spout off tourist arrival numbers, but without an understanding of how those numbers translate into revenue they are meaningless. I am entirely unconvinced of the value of this sector of the tourism industry to the Bahamian economy.  

Tourism figures indicate that although the overall number of arrivals has increased over time the positive economic impact of those arrivals has decreased. I don&#039;t know whether any studies of the negative economic impact -- which would include environmental damage to our harbour and the monopolizing of onshore tours by the cruise ships and Atlantis together (witness the article by Neil Hartnell in today&#039;s Tribune) -- have been done, but anecdotally the ceding of control over our port to cruise ship operators does not seem to bring real economic benefits to Bahamians.

I advocate spending smarter, not more. Dredging Nassau Harbour to accommodate even bigger cruise ships is not spending intelligently at all, given the lacklustre economic return in this arena.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know whether we need even the current number of cruise ships, frankly; I am convinced we don&#8217;t need more. The only people who benefit from more cruise ship arrivals are the politicians who can spout off tourist arrival numbers, but without an understanding of how those numbers translate into revenue they are meaningless. I am entirely unconvinced of the value of this sector of the tourism industry to the Bahamian economy.  </p>
<p>Tourism figures indicate that although the overall number of arrivals has increased over time the positive economic impact of those arrivals has decreased. I don&#8217;t know whether any studies of the negative economic impact &#8212; which would include environmental damage to our harbour and the monopolizing of onshore tours by the cruise ships and Atlantis together (witness the article by Neil Hartnell in today&#8217;s Tribune) &#8212; have been done, but anecdotally the ceding of control over our port to cruise ship operators does not seem to bring real economic benefits to Bahamians.</p>
<p>I advocate spending smarter, not more. Dredging Nassau Harbour to accommodate even bigger cruise ships is not spending intelligently at all, given the lacklustre economic return in this arena.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83112</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83112</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think public funds should be used for it.
Let the cruise ships that make the profit do it.
Do we need the same amount of cruise ships or do we need no cruise ships.
Where do you draw the line?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think public funds should be used for it.<br />
Let the cruise ships that make the profit do it.<br />
Do we need the same amount of cruise ships or do we need no cruise ships.<br />
Where do you draw the line?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolette Bethel</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83111</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolette Bethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83111</guid>
		<description>I do not see why we need more cruise ships, frankly. It&#039;s a failing strategy and investing more of my money in it will not make it more successful. If you can explain what we will gain from the dredging, rather than leaping to privatization (?????) I would be grateful. I fail to understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not see why we need more cruise ships, frankly. It&#8217;s a failing strategy and investing more of my money in it will not make it more successful. If you can explain what we will gain from the dredging, rather than leaping to privatization (?????) I would be grateful. I fail to understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83110</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83110</guid>
		<description>I think the Government has to find a way to privatise those issues.
Maybe this is a great leap, but sell the port to a cruise ship association.
Atlantis should pay to advertise itself for sure.
Can I expect the government to pay advertising for the company I work for?
I keep going back to first principles. If these events are as viable as people state, they should be able to pay for themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Government has to find a way to privatise those issues.<br />
Maybe this is a great leap, but sell the port to a cruise ship association.<br />
Atlantis should pay to advertise itself for sure.<br />
Can I expect the government to pay advertising for the company I work for?<br />
I keep going back to first principles. If these events are as viable as people state, they should be able to pay for themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolette Bethel</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83109</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolette Bethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83109</guid>
		<description>What about the strings attached to the debt that&#039;s being gone into for future generations for the dredging of the harbour for larger cruise ships? Is that a wise allocation of the people&#039;s money, would you say? Or the money that the taxpayers spend at the moment to assist with the advertising of Atlantis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the strings attached to the debt that&#8217;s being gone into for future generations for the dredging of the harbour for larger cruise ships? Is that a wise allocation of the people&#8217;s money, would you say? Or the money that the taxpayers spend at the moment to assist with the advertising of Atlantis?</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83108</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83108</guid>
		<description>Great.
So why don&#039;t you put a group of like minded individuals together to bring CARIFESTA here without the Government if it&#039;s that beneficial?
You can have a representative from Government on the committee to facilitate your duty free permits etc and to resolve those red tape issues that will ultimately arise.
Then it will be done the way you want, without strings attached for future generations to pay for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great.<br />
So why don&#8217;t you put a group of like minded individuals together to bring CARIFESTA here without the Government if it&#8217;s that beneficial?<br />
You can have a representative from Government on the committee to facilitate your duty free permits etc and to resolve those red tape issues that will ultimately arise.<br />
Then it will be done the way you want, without strings attached for future generations to pay for.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolette Bethel</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83107</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolette Bethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83107</guid>
		<description>Where you and I appear to differ, Rick, and where our governments of all creeds and colours also differ from me, is in our definition of &quot;development&quot;. For me, the material is not the be-all and the end-all. For me, true development has been achieved when a people united can look at their nation and find something there of which to be proud.

Aside from our economic status, which, I agree with you, is remarkable (but perhaps accidental, owing to the absence-through-embargo, for the self-same 40-year period, of our most formidable competitor, Cuba), of what in our nation can we look at and all be proud?

I suggest that even given our so-called &quot;development&quot; the market in The Bahamas has not been truly free. Without Cuba next door to compete with us (and for those people who have no idea what that could be like, I suggest they spend some time in the Archives and/or with a good history book and read the actions of the governments during the 1930s and 1940s to try and boost our economy through the expansion of our tourism product, and, further, examine the techniques used by the proto-UBP to do so), we have been working in a market that has been unnaturally skewed in our direction by -- oh, my -- the decision of successive American governments.

I suggest that even the land boom and foreign investment strategies will fail, and dramatically, the minute Cuba opens to that kind of economic activity. Cuban land, and Cuba&#039;s tourism industry, are wide open, and will afford huge returns on foreign investment. And everything there will be cheaper, far cheaper, than here, with better value for money, too -- a better educated population, a prouder people.

And once again, Rick, I am not seeking to take more resourcs from Bahamians to fulfill my desires. I never have. Like Pat Rahming, I am advocating a more equitable allocation of funds, a redistribution up of what we currently waste, an investment that will bring returns in a product that every truthful student of the Bahamian tourism product will conclude is failing, losing ground, losing its edge.

How will CARIFESTA help us all? Just for your information, it&#039;ll bring 10 days of cultural activity on the Bahamian side of the bridge. Not counting tourists, it will bring between 1500 to 3000 performers to Nassau, most of whom will live not on our Gold Coast (Cable Beach and Paradise Island) but in more modest areas, in smaller hotels and guest houses, who will need food and transportation and who will spend money for that as well as for water and for liquor. In Trinidad, each performer spent a conservative US $100 a day on food, drink, transportation and accommodation, money that went directly into the hands of Trinidadians, not of foreigners who, here, repatriate over 50% of that money. 

That&#039;s the main benefit to &quot;us all&quot;. The money that CARIFESTA will attract will be spent among Bahamians, and go directly into the Bahamian economy, and not be filtered into it through salaries and tips, which is the main way in which it will go. And CARIFESTA -- any cultural festival -- would provide employment for a group of people currently underserved by our &quot;development&quot; model -- artists, performers, seamstresses, designers, graphic artists, photographers, writers, t-shirt makers, strawcraft workers, etc, etc, etc -- people in whose work we can actually be proud, and for whose work most Bahamians currently do not pay.

But don&#039;t take my word for it. Go do the research on the economic impact of festivals for yourself. Go see who spends what on festivals where, and figure out what returns we are missing by our current misdirection of public funding.

Not more spending. Wiser investment. That&#039;s what I&#039;m after.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where you and I appear to differ, Rick, and where our governments of all creeds and colours also differ from me, is in our definition of &#8220;development&#8221;. For me, the material is not the be-all and the end-all. For me, true development has been achieved when a people united can look at their nation and find something there of which to be proud.</p>
<p>Aside from our economic status, which, I agree with you, is remarkable (but perhaps accidental, owing to the absence-through-embargo, for the self-same 40-year period, of our most formidable competitor, Cuba), of what in our nation can we look at and all be proud?</p>
<p>I suggest that even given our so-called &#8220;development&#8221; the market in The Bahamas has not been truly free. Without Cuba next door to compete with us (and for those people who have no idea what that could be like, I suggest they spend some time in the Archives and/or with a good history book and read the actions of the governments during the 1930s and 1940s to try and boost our economy through the expansion of our tourism product, and, further, examine the techniques used by the proto-UBP to do so), we have been working in a market that has been unnaturally skewed in our direction by &#8212; oh, my &#8212; the decision of successive American governments.</p>
<p>I suggest that even the land boom and foreign investment strategies will fail, and dramatically, the minute Cuba opens to that kind of economic activity. Cuban land, and Cuba&#8217;s tourism industry, are wide open, and will afford huge returns on foreign investment. And everything there will be cheaper, far cheaper, than here, with better value for money, too &#8212; a better educated population, a prouder people.</p>
<p>And once again, Rick, I am not seeking to take more resourcs from Bahamians to fulfill my desires. I never have. Like Pat Rahming, I am advocating a more equitable allocation of funds, a redistribution up of what we currently waste, an investment that will bring returns in a product that every truthful student of the Bahamian tourism product will conclude is failing, losing ground, losing its edge.</p>
<p>How will CARIFESTA help us all? Just for your information, it&#8217;ll bring 10 days of cultural activity on the Bahamian side of the bridge. Not counting tourists, it will bring between 1500 to 3000 performers to Nassau, most of whom will live not on our Gold Coast (Cable Beach and Paradise Island) but in more modest areas, in smaller hotels and guest houses, who will need food and transportation and who will spend money for that as well as for water and for liquor. In Trinidad, each performer spent a conservative US $100 a day on food, drink, transportation and accommodation, money that went directly into the hands of Trinidadians, not of foreigners who, here, repatriate over 50% of that money. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the main benefit to &#8220;us all&#8221;. The money that CARIFESTA will attract will be spent among Bahamians, and go directly into the Bahamian economy, and not be filtered into it through salaries and tips, which is the main way in which it will go. And CARIFESTA &#8212; any cultural festival &#8212; would provide employment for a group of people currently underserved by our &#8220;development&#8221; model &#8212; artists, performers, seamstresses, designers, graphic artists, photographers, writers, t-shirt makers, strawcraft workers, etc, etc, etc &#8212; people in whose work we can actually be proud, and for whose work most Bahamians currently do not pay.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t take my word for it. Go do the research on the economic impact of festivals for yourself. Go see who spends what on festivals where, and figure out what returns we are missing by our current misdirection of public funding.</p>
<p>Not more spending. Wiser investment. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m after.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2009/04/on-culture-carifesta-and-the-bahamian-economy-part-i/comment-page-1/#comment-83106</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1178#comment-83106</guid>
		<description>Dear Nico:
In your reply to Larry you enunciate very clearly why the market offers the best route to solving problems rather than government.
Development does happen at the hands of the foreigner, in spite of what you suggest, as few Bahamians seem interested.
Development of our culture is the responsibility of those of us that think it is important.
If enough of us don&#039;t think it&#039;s important, then we won&#039;t do it.
Taking more financial resources from Bahamians to fulfill my desires, or yours for that matter, is not the correct approach in my not so humble opinion.
But as Larry points out, Culture gets quite a bit already.
The bigger the government becomes, the less effective it becomes at accomplishing its tasks, unless it takes by force what it wants of course.
By the way, how would CARIFESTA help us all?
Kind regards,
Rick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Nico:<br />
In your reply to Larry you enunciate very clearly why the market offers the best route to solving problems rather than government.<br />
Development does happen at the hands of the foreigner, in spite of what you suggest, as few Bahamians seem interested.<br />
Development of our culture is the responsibility of those of us that think it is important.<br />
If enough of us don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s important, then we won&#8217;t do it.<br />
Taking more financial resources from Bahamians to fulfill my desires, or yours for that matter, is not the correct approach in my not so humble opinion.<br />
But as Larry points out, Culture gets quite a bit already.<br />
The bigger the government becomes, the less effective it becomes at accomplishing its tasks, unless it takes by force what it wants of course.<br />
By the way, how would CARIFESTA help us all?<br />
Kind regards,<br />
Rick</p>
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