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	<title>Comments on: Poor political salesmen? Give me a break.</title>
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	<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/</link>
	<description>Nicolette Bethel&#039;s Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Nicolette Bethel</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83326</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolette Bethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83326</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree. The fact is that we don&#039;t need a majority of Bahamians to make a third party viable. All we need is enough of a consolidated minority -- or an independent minority -- to make the strengths of the Westminster parliamentary system work for us.

For instance, in Canada, the French-speaking minority bears far more influence on the whole of Canadian politics than its size and location might suggest because of the way Westminster works. For years the Bloc Quebecois has been a decisive force in federal government policy because the Big Three in Canadian politics -- the Progressive Conservatives, the Liberals, and the National Democratic Party -- all have pretty stable constituencies, but not one of them has a real majority. This is fundamentally unlike the bipartisan model that US politics has to struggle with; small shifts in population and in public sentiment can result in big shifts in the Canadian political landscape. There is no majority in Canadian federal politics.

This is the same in The Bahamas. There is no majority in either the FNM or the PLP; both receive less than 50% of the popular vote. True, they receive over 45% of the popular vote, which makes them both important players, but the &quot;swing vote&quot; portion of the population has been growing since 1997. (For a fuller analysis, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bahamapundit.com/2010/02/a-brief-analysis-of-a-midterm-byeelection.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Larry Smith&#039;s review of the Elizabeth by-election&lt;/a&gt;.) It is this group of people -- a tiny minority in real terms, but a major force in national politics -- which makes the difference in electing governments. And it&#039;s this group of people whose actions in Elizabeth are worth watching. 

This is why I&#039;m optimistic. Those of us who are fed up with the normal state of affairs may not be the majority of Bahamian voters -- but the good news is we don&#039;t have to be. The larger that group becomes, the more influence we have. A mere 5% of the popular vote, given the almost-equal support garnered by the FNM and the PLP, will make all the difference in the world. So I am optimistic, and I think the time is right to be so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree. The fact is that we don&#8217;t need a majority of Bahamians to make a third party viable. All we need is enough of a consolidated minority &#8212; or an independent minority &#8212; to make the strengths of the Westminster parliamentary system work for us.</p>
<p>For instance, in Canada, the French-speaking minority bears far more influence on the whole of Canadian politics than its size and location might suggest because of the way Westminster works. For years the Bloc Quebecois has been a decisive force in federal government policy because the Big Three in Canadian politics &#8212; the Progressive Conservatives, the Liberals, and the National Democratic Party &#8212; all have pretty stable constituencies, but not one of them has a real majority. This is fundamentally unlike the bipartisan model that US politics has to struggle with; small shifts in population and in public sentiment can result in big shifts in the Canadian political landscape. There is no majority in Canadian federal politics.</p>
<p>This is the same in The Bahamas. There is no majority in either the FNM or the PLP; both receive less than 50% of the popular vote. True, they receive over 45% of the popular vote, which makes them both important players, but the &#8220;swing vote&#8221; portion of the population has been growing since 1997. (For a fuller analysis, see <a href="http://www.bahamapundit.com/2010/02/a-brief-analysis-of-a-midterm-byeelection.html" rel="nofollow">Larry Smith&#8217;s review of the Elizabeth by-election</a>.) It is this group of people &#8212; a tiny minority in real terms, but a major force in national politics &#8212; which makes the difference in electing governments. And it&#8217;s this group of people whose actions in Elizabeth are worth watching. </p>
<p>This is why I&#8217;m optimistic. Those of us who are fed up with the normal state of affairs may not be the majority of Bahamian voters &#8212; but the good news is we don&#8217;t have to be. The larger that group becomes, the more influence we have. A mere 5% of the popular vote, given the almost-equal support garnered by the FNM and the PLP, will make all the difference in the world. So I am optimistic, and I think the time is right to be so.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Clarke</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83325</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83325</guid>
		<description>Five years is precious little time in societal life and politics. We probably will not see any significant change until the current crop of key players fade from the scene due to age and death. Unfortunately this does not bode well for our immediate future. We will probably see the same tired games being played for another ten years or so. The positive side of this will be that the people, having made quantum ideological leaps beyond the politicians and so utterly tired of the old games will reject all those with the same political agenda and modus operandi. This could be our moment of change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Five years is precious little time in societal life and politics. We probably will not see any significant change until the current crop of key players fade from the scene due to age and death. Unfortunately this does not bode well for our immediate future. We will probably see the same tired games being played for another ten years or so. The positive side of this will be that the people, having made quantum ideological leaps beyond the politicians and so utterly tired of the old games will reject all those with the same political agenda and modus operandi. This could be our moment of change.</p>
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		<title>By: Livingstone Robinson</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83324</link>
		<dc:creator>Livingstone Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83324</guid>
		<description>My questions to all of you is ? Where do you see the political atmosphere in the Bahamas in the next five year.Is there a majority of Bahamian who want a new political party or drastic change to the current quagmire? What is it going to take or happen for this mindset to occur. And are you going to be &quot;independence&quot; in your thinking &amp; actions for this growth to happen ?? 

The utopia you talk about Nico is there any countries in the region that we can look to as a yard-stick ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My questions to all of you is ? Where do you see the political atmosphere in the Bahamas in the next five year.Is there a majority of Bahamian who want a new political party or drastic change to the current quagmire? What is it going to take or happen for this mindset to occur. And are you going to be &#8220;independence&#8221; in your thinking &amp; actions for this growth to happen ?? </p>
<p>The utopia you talk about Nico is there any countries in the region that we can look to as a yard-stick ?</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Lowe</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83323</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83323</guid>
		<description>To paraphrase Dr. Don Boudreaux over at www.cafehayek.com a politicians overwhelming object is not to help their public deal with reality but, rather, to escape it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To paraphrase Dr. Don Boudreaux over at <a href="http://www.cafehayek.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cafehayek.com</a> a politicians overwhelming object is not to help their public deal with reality but, rather, to escape it.</p>
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		<title>By: C.Lowe</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83322</link>
		<dc:creator>C.Lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83322</guid>
		<description>We have spoken of this before Nico, I agree with you but also, perhaps the political class as it were is a true representation of Bahamians.
Rule of law, and Constitution have been supplanted by &quot;power assumed&quot;
Tribalism at its worst and in direct conflict with our Constitution esp. in practice. By tribalism I mean &quot;rule by allegiance to personality&quot;
Some are waking up no doubt, but,as you say &quot;yes we can&quot; my mother would say
&quot;we bloody well better&quot;
Otherwise, we go nowhere but down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have spoken of this before Nico, I agree with you but also, perhaps the political class as it were is a true representation of Bahamians.<br />
Rule of law, and Constitution have been supplanted by &#8220;power assumed&#8221;<br />
Tribalism at its worst and in direct conflict with our Constitution esp. in practice. By tribalism I mean &#8220;rule by allegiance to personality&#8221;<br />
Some are waking up no doubt, but,as you say &#8220;yes we can&#8221; my mother would say<br />
&#8220;we bloody well better&#8221;<br />
Otherwise, we go nowhere but down.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Clarke</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83321</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83321</guid>
		<description>A representative must and logically can only pursue &quot;what is good for the society&quot;. The pursuit of individual goals, particularly at the expense of the greater good is obviously counter productive and what may be at the heart of many of our current problems. Man has survived and progressed because of social interdependance. So the ordinary citizen as you put it is all of us but none of us individually.
The fallacy is realised when politicians convince citizens that they will champion their cause, even individually, when the reality is the only cause he champions is his own.The reality is also that we as individually can best champion our own causes. The most effective role of the politician/leader is to lay a consistent foundation from which we all benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A representative must and logically can only pursue &#8220;what is good for the society&#8221;. The pursuit of individual goals, particularly at the expense of the greater good is obviously counter productive and what may be at the heart of many of our current problems. Man has survived and progressed because of social interdependance. So the ordinary citizen as you put it is all of us but none of us individually.<br />
The fallacy is realised when politicians convince citizens that they will champion their cause, even individually, when the reality is the only cause he champions is his own.The reality is also that we as individually can best champion our own causes. The most effective role of the politician/leader is to lay a consistent foundation from which we all benefit.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Lowe</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83320</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83320</guid>
		<description>Who&#039;s asking the questions here Nico? :0)
My point is the Constitution is not a document that empowers the political class to represent me over you or vice versa. It is to guarantee certain freedoms and protections for everyone.
So how can an MP represent the &quot;ordinary citizen&quot; differently than they can represent any other person as outlined by our country&#039;s founding document.
This is the fallacy of politics in my view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s asking the questions here Nico? :0)<br />
My point is the Constitution is not a document that empowers the political class to represent me over you or vice versa. It is to guarantee certain freedoms and protections for everyone.<br />
So how can an MP represent the &#8220;ordinary citizen&#8221; differently than they can represent any other person as outlined by our country&#8217;s founding document.<br />
This is the fallacy of politics in my view.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolette Bethel</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83319</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolette Bethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83319</guid>
		<description>???

Are you suggesting that the Constitution is fundamentally anti-democratic in some way? Or that democracy only works when there is some sort of similarity between the people involved?  Not sure what you mean by this question, but if you&#039;re suggesting that the Constitution does not in some way permit direct representation in Parliament, then perhaps it&#039;s time for us to amend the Constitution -- drastically.

Perhaps it&#039;s time for us to know what&#039;s in it first, though. For people who have never read it, (this isn&#039;t directed at you, Rick!) &lt;a href=&quot;http://is.gd/907L1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click here (Government of Bahamas official site, with disclaimer)&lt;/a&gt;, or &lt;a href=&quot;http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Bahamas/bah73.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;go here (Georgetown University&#039;s repository of international constitutions, without disclaimer)&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>???</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that the Constitution is fundamentally anti-democratic in some way? Or that democracy only works when there is some sort of similarity between the people involved?  Not sure what you mean by this question, but if you&#8217;re suggesting that the Constitution does not in some way permit direct representation in Parliament, then perhaps it&#8217;s time for us to amend the Constitution &#8212; drastically.</p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s time for us to know what&#8217;s in it first, though. For people who have never read it, (this isn&#8217;t directed at you, Rick!) <a href="http://is.gd/907L1" rel="nofollow">click here (Government of Bahamas official site, with disclaimer)</a>, or <a href="http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Bahamas/bah73.html" rel="nofollow">go here (Georgetown University&#8217;s repository of international constitutions, without disclaimer)</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Lowe</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83318</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83318</guid>
		<description>And how does that relate to the Constitution when we have so many different &quot;ordinary citizens&quot; in each constituency?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how does that relate to the Constitution when we have so many different &#8220;ordinary citizens&#8221; in each constituency?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolette Bethel</title>
		<link>http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/2010/02/poor-political-salesmen-give-me-a-break/comment-page-1/#comment-83317</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolette Bethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nicobethel.net/blogworld/?p=1652#comment-83317</guid>
		<description>Oh, and someone who will not sacrifice what is right for what is expedient. Perhaps that&#039;s the most important one of all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and someone who will not sacrifice what is right for what is expedient. Perhaps that&#8217;s the most important one of all.</p>
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